So I chanced upon this article on my Facebook feed. Basically, this girl got roofied (drugged) and then given an unwelcome photoshoot while she was knocked out. Someone removed her clothes, took pictures and circulated them. This happened in China, but found its way onto local portal, STOMP/Lollipop.sg.
This was its Lead-in Picture
By the time I saw it on my Facebook feed, the comments were already full of people condemning the girl.
Cue the men
Let’s start with the classic stuff first.
Michael Lim, with a Facebook profile pic of a Buddha, actually thinks that rape is okay if a girl shows some tit. If you’re Michael’s friend, please be careful. He’ll rape you if you show him some flesh.
Iskhandar here has decided that if you get betrayed by your friends, SERVE YOU RIGHT. That’s right… the same guy that has no friends, girlfriend, sibling or BFFs at all…
uh.. Serves you right?
Ladies, if Huat Ah Edmund (wtf kind of name is that) is your friend, don’t go out with him because if he see you bei tahan, he may consider drugging you and snapping naked pics of you.
Also: Bless you, Ailin Ang, whoever you are. You’ve tried your best.
Darren How believes that if you expose some flesh, you lose all your rights along with your dignity. Bugra Katranci also thinks that if you have a brain, you should “go home with your feminism”. I say Bugra doesn’t have a functional brain because no one understands what the fuck she’s saying.
Women come crawling out of the woodwork
This actually surprised the shit out of me. In hindsight, it shouldn’t have surprised me that women judge each other harshly.
This first one is from Yum Mummy (again, what’s with the weird names).
Only one comment:
wat = *What
chic = *chick
You may think she dressed cheaply, but I KNOW for sure you can’t spell.
Andorra Ooi definitely has had some experience with “F*** up bitch attitude” friends. She doesn’t know this girl, but hey it’s okay to be drugged and violated if shes a “F*** up bitch”. If you know Andorra doesn’t like you, remember not to go out clubbing with her.
I can tell you that because she thinks it’s alright to be violated for any reason at all, she’s the fucked up one.
Priscilla Lim has some choice words, including “slut” because if you dress sexy, you’re a slut. Also, if you responded to her, you’re “same type”. It’s this messed up attitude that’s keeping us in Third World “type” mentality, for sure.
You know Lyn, men will look at boobs. Men will also totally touch said boobs if you allow them. BUT when a girl is drugged and unconscious, it becomes a CRIME TO TOUCH HER BOOBS.
IT’S NOT OKAY AT ALL!
Mag Kan. You also got an ah lian face also and yes, unless someone has special magic vision, they won’t be able to see nipples as well. Please tell me if you know a special way to see them.
Mag tries to use logic here, but fails to impress: No she doesn’t deserve it because of the way she dresses (ooohhh she feels so smart now) BUT she is dumb & vain (HAH! So proud for her, using descriptive words) to accept a drink so she deserves it.
You’re kinda an idiot.
What’s ridiculous to me…
is the fact that a large number of people on the page actually think it is okay to blame the girl for some perceived invitation to be drugged and photographed without consent.
What is ridiculous to me is that a large number of women think that it’s a woman’s fault. That rape or any outrage of modesty is alright if she didn’t dress in long sleeved, non-figure accentuating clothes.
What’s ridiculous to me is that we, as a collective, are largely silent about standing with the victims. Stop this shit, guys. JUST STOP IT.
Wow a white Knight in action. In your attempt to look chivalrous, you only concentrated on rabid slut-shamers. You conveniently left out the ridiculous feminists and the reasonable, practically-minded voices. It’s easy to accuse others of victim blaming. Some of those you highlighted were idiots. But while I agree with the statement “the rapist is always at fault”, I disagree with “it’s never the woman’s fault”. Consider this: a company exec leaves his laptop unattended at the MRT, and it gets stolen along with the company secrets on it. He gets fired. How is that different? It’s a sensitive topic and there is a fine line between victim shaming and prudent advice. But saying the victim should have known better is not always entirely wrong. Moralise all you want, but in some cases, victims do contribute to their misfortune, whether it is politically correct to say so or not.
So as a woman, if I’m being provocative with my demeanor, it’s my fault to get groped, and sexually assaulted?
That short dress I wear that leaves a little less to the imagination, the whorish make-up, the slutty heels, the seductive pout, the sexy hair. It all puts me up, ripe for the plucking to fulfill the forbidden fantasies of men.
Or MAYBE, it was all just for myself to look and feel good, and men should keep their hands off of me. It doesn’t matter how I dress or look. It’s not an invitation. What matters is that it’s non-consensual and was grossly taken advantage of.
Women aren’t a piece of meat. This savage sense of entitlement needs to stop.
But then again, as a man yourself, I doubt you’ve ever been a victim. So I’d rather that you rethink your opinion, which can never be a fact, and I hope it never does.
OHHHHHH Anne!
BURN.
Ok on a more serious note: yes women aren’t pieces of meat, which is why I wrote this piece of post.
Chill out everyone! I am a lady, but I’m going to say that Marcus has a valid point. We both agree that drugging, molestation and rape of any sort are without a doubt, ABSOLUTELY WRONG. Obviously, the person who is committing the crime is the one at fault, and thus the one we ought to blame.
This is not to say that the victim always completely innocent. If my house gets broken in to, it’s the burglars fault because he committed a crime. However, maybe some blame might be on me as well, since I chose to live in an unsafe neighborhood or if I didn’t take the extra preventative measures to keep burglars out. Or maybe I have done all of that, and I sincerely tried my best to keep burglars out. Maybe I am poor and i cannot afford a good neighborhood. But that is for me to know. No one can ever speculate if the victim has tried his or her best, or what the “best” even means. None of you people are the victim, so none of you can make such accusations. Most of people see in black and white. This situation is gray. Both can be at different degrees of fault.
Hey Jenny,
Thanks for the opinion!
In your analogy, I would say that if the burglars were determined, and they knew what they wanted, no amount of security would have prevented them from making that attempt to break in :))
The problem is when we keep putting the Onus on the victim to “try her best” to prevent being taken advantage of. That mindset is what encourages rape culture.
Take for example, the Indian Nun who was raped. Did she “try her best” not to get raped? Who knows?
How are we comparing being drugged, raped/stripping a girl naked to negligence from a worker’s perspective and being robbed? Do we treat all of these things equally? You don’t treat a human or animal like a thing.
I don’t understand that either. At least you get it, Desh!
You are writing rubbish and the comments you posted regarding the posts you caption, don’t even make and sense. You sound like a teenager trying to make yourself famous. Get a life~.~
The internet already have so much rubbish, why add on to them. You can’t even rebutt some of the comments you caption properly. My god.
Isn’t it common sense to not accept drinks from acquaintance? Will you accept candies from a stranger??
Most of them are not blaming the girl only. But they are just saying that the girl is at fault also.
Please learn to grow up and make more sensible articles. Doesn’t mean you use the word fk, means you win~.~
Hi Nammi,
You’re writing this irrational comment in anger. So, I’ve already won. 😉
laptop vs ANOTHER HUMAN BEING
does that answer your question?
You know, you can warn someone of potential dangers without being a sanctimonious prick. You don’t have to try to educate others at the expense of victims.
If you were a decent human being, you would not take advantage of anyone, no matter how easy it may be. Could the girl have been more cautious? Perhaps. It’s possible that she didn’t collect her drinks directly from the bartender, or that she mistrusted her acquaintances. But are the perpetrators the ones at fault? The answer is a resounding “yes”.
People who speak up against the kind of ignorance apparent in the Facebook comments are not “white knights”; they simply possess enough common sense and human decency to be able to tell right from wrong, and call it like they see it.
Marcus, are you just trying to attract attention here? Because I think you’re quite successful at this. On a second note, you should really change your mentality. It is NEVER the girl’s fault that she gets raped. It is the guy’s fault for being unable to control.
Just because a girl like to dress provocatively, DOES NOT mean that she should be raped. Can you imagine the emotional trauma that would cause her? The men who have raped her would only be sentenced to jail or may even get away scot-free in certain countries. Can you imagine how terrified the girl would feel, knowing that her rapist is free, and might attack her again?
I am sorry but girls aren’t the only victims of rape as well. There are guys who were raped as well. And they are equally traumatised. Some have even lost their ability to procreate in a sense. Women aren’t the only victims, YOU have the chance to be raped one day as well. On that day, let’s see if you would think it’s the victim’s fault or the perpetrator’s fault.
So, stop making excuses to rape someone. Do you think that by making such comments, the law would have some exceptions for rape? Like “oh, the girl is dressed like a slut, so it is okay, the suspect is found innocent”. Yeah. In your dreams.
The analogy you provided is FUNDAMENTALLY different and supremely inappropriate. You consider savagely breaching a woman’s (or anyone’s for that matter) bodily integrity akin to property theft?! The right to bodily integrity is a fundamental right that everyone has (consider the European Convention on Human Rights Article 8), while a right to property is secondary in a sense that it is acquired and not inherent. RAPING a woman (or anyone) is NOT akin to STEALING a laptop with sensitive information, and I seek anyone out there to convince me HOW they can be considered the SAME. More pertinently, raping a woman causes IRREVERSIBLE damage–you can never un-rape someone or undo the psychological trauma that has been burdened upon the victims. On the other hand, one can definitely replace a laptop and find ways to keep the company’s secret from leaking out; if the company suffers financial losses from the leaked secret, they can be earned back. To even suggest the consideration of such a proposition reflects how callous and juvenile your thought processes are.
It is not wrong to say that the victim should have known better, but this does not mean that they DESERVE being raped or that the rapist’s criminal culpability is reduced. It is correct to say that sometimes victims do contributed to their misfortune, for e.g. alcohol intoxication may reduce criminal liability for some offences like murder (subject to certain conditions). However, specifically in this case, the proposition that a woman contributes to her own rape because of what she chooses to wear is so preposterous that practically, such an argument WILL NEVER hold up in court. Different people are tempted by different things; are women supposed to go around conducting a survey of everyone around them about what they should being wearing so that they do not attract any unwanted attention? What if a man is sooooo turned on by high-collared long sleeved shirts? The fact of the matter is that BOTH practically and morally speaking, the focus should not be on how a woman (or anyone) chooses to dress, but on the fact that the men FAILED TO EXERCISE THEIR SELF-CONTROL–IT IS IRRELEVANT HOW TEMPTED THEY FELT.
Therefore, specifically in this case, even though being scantily-clad might have contributed to the men being more tempted to rape the woman, IT IS NOT HER FAULT THAT THE MEN FAILED TO EXERCISE SELF-CONTROL. And the latter should be the focus on the discussion, unless you too have a problem of self-control and are trying to shift the blame?
P.S. Think about whether you would propose the same arguments if it were your mothers, sisters, daughters, wives or girlfriends being at the end of that rapist’s penis.
Some of the “it’s never her fault” voices suffered from the same poor spelling, illogical arguments and general idiocy as those you shamed. Shaines Hasn didn’t make much sense with her ridiculous straw man argument and suffered from poor grammar. Of course, because she was saying politically correct stuff, you could not hang her out to dry. Moralising white knight alert.
Ok, I must have annoyed you so much you needed to write 2 separate comments to let off some steam.
For your Laptop analogy: Executive gets fired and leaves, has to start all over again but hey, he can get another job. Unless someone rats him out.
In this case: Girl’s photos get circulated on the Internet and then… everybody starts saying she deserved it, and she is a whore, etc etc. No chance at all, Marcus.
Truth is whether she’s naked, or half-dressed or fully dressed, rape happens. If she’s covered up, rapists say she “welcomed them” or “invited them”, if she’s sexily dressed, then she’s a whore anyway and it’s okay.
If only you knew me in person, you’d know I hate to be politically correct. In this case, I’m going against a Normalised Social Perception, which I recognised would receive backlash such as yours. But I believe in what I say, and I stand by it.
I guess the moment someone makes a stand for this, they get labelled White Knight, moralising, etc etc. Perhaps it’s a normal thing for heavily read articles eh? Thanks for letting me know your thoughts. At least I know there’s some form of reaction.
I think the main point of discussion here is: whether dressing provocatively or behaving provocatively means the victim is to blame for rape.
I am going to say no; and maybe the other guys will agree too. HOWEVER, 1 I will never leave my drink unattended, 2 I don’t trust acquaintances or strangers, 3. I always pour my own drink. 4. I always go have fun with at least 1 person I trust completely, etc. I’m not saying she couldn’t have done every single one of these, but it’s not a bad thing to be safe, woman or man. I try to avoid walking through the projects at night, I avoid wearing jewelry when I’m abroad, I keep my wallet close to my chest when I’m walking in crowds…. Of course it’s nice to not have any criminals around, but the world isn’t perfect and we all have a duty to protect ourselves to the best of our ability
Seriously, all things aside, regarding the laptop issue, there is a simple solution. Why, like blaming victims who are raped, can’t people just simply help one another? If someone loses a laptop, and it is not yours, why can’t you return it? You don’t even have to go search for the person yourself. Just go to the control room wherever you are stopping at and tell them someone lost it. I understand that there will be people who will say things along the lines of “keep dreaming” or “that is only the ideal situation” or “it rarely happens in reality” but is that really how you are brou
*is that really how you were brought up by your parents? Taking advantage of those who are in need of help? We are only limited by ourselves. This statement works for this case as well. If before we try to make the world a safer and better place to live in, we have area condemned ourselves that our world is not and will never be a safe place, we have already begun to make our world dangerous.
Also, since we are on the subject of rape victim blaming, usually because “they are scantily clad”, “they shouldn’t trust their friends”, et cetera. I want to seriously ask this, do you not know ANYONE who was raped, or heard of ANYONE who was raped, or done ANY research about it at all? Before commenting your hearts out about a subject you only think you know well, or have the right to comment on, think about this, many of the rape victims, when they are raped are, surprise surprise, not dressed like a, to quote your word “slut”. And oh, kids can get raped as well, by their uncles, grandfathers or even their very own parents. I am not sure who you want them to trust if they can’t even trust their own parents. Oh, and did you know? GUYS CAN GET RAPED TOO. Though they have their own sad side because “you must be enjoying it” or “you didn’t fight hard enough”. I am not sure about you guys but I definitely remember rape as something forced upon the victim.
Wow, Marcus.
Why does the idea of someone “moralising” butt-hurt you so much? Kenneth’s trying to correct the extremely flawed and highly pervasive (ref: you) mindset that is victim blaming in Singapore. I read Kenneth’s article and I think THANK GOD FOR THIS GUY. Then I see a comment like yours and I think …wow, what an absolute dick.
How is it possible that you’re so intensely blind to the fact that he MIGHT actually see a problem with victim blaming? That this MIGHT be more than an effort to be ‘politically correct’? That his argument does hold not just logical weight but immense emotional relevance to very many people? You seem to have blinders on and to you there’s only one way things could be working.
You never experience the effects of victim blaming because you are MALE. It’s as simple as that. For once in your life have you thought about what other people go through – for some, depending on their backgrounds or places of work, on a daily basis. Victim blaming is highly pervasive in a woman’s life, so why is it so hard for you to accept that your experience or what you hear from your handful or friends does not represent many other peoples’ experiences? MAYBE people are actually going through a fucking difficult time. MAYBE people aren’t just talking about things because they think it’s fashionable to be feminist. MAYBE you don’t know everything.
So, Marcus, this is why you’re so butthurt and you’re bringing up really ridiculous arguments like “hey kenneth, you pointed out this this person’s english sucks but not this other person… so your whole argument is flawed”: your masculinity is your only form of superiority and the fact that someone is doing something to help others threatens you. You can argue it any which way you want, but a zillion psychiatrists will tell you that’s what’s going on in your subconscious. You’re probably really unhappy with yourself and all you have is your masculinity and daily keyboard warrior-ing to bring down those damn feminazis to help you get by.
One day the realisation will hit you.. or one day someone close to you (a partner, a daughter, a best friend) will have a really painful experience (victim blaming, cat calling, discrimination in the workplace – don’t say I’m dragging in random issues because all of these problems are linked and fuel each other) and you’d never be able to forgive yourself for being one of those assholes that contributed to making life that much harder for her.
So just sit back and realise “oh shit. people out there really do have difficult lives” and think of how you can help them, not how you pull every bit of progress back ten thousand steps. And read a book, man. Your ignorance is sad as hell.
Wow, Claire. Nicely done.
And great article Kenneth!
HEY LAURA!
So nice of you to say here! :))
Thank you for making a stand about this. As a woman, I accept the responsibility for me to take care of myself. It is true that I should be aware of my surroundings and that there are dangerous situations that can occur from not being careful.
HOWEVER, it is not my responsibility for someone else’s lust, feelings and perceptions. It is not an open invitation to touch me, demean me, or rape me just because of their OWN beliefs.
If as a woman, I say, “She deserved it.” Boy, is this a damn slippery slope. So what qualifies as “deserved it”. In certain countries, if a woman exposes any skin, she deserves it.
Women should stand with women or at least be aware of what their beliefs are. If it goes that a woman deserves how she is treated because of the way she is dressed, then we justify rape. Which in any case shouldn’t be justified!
Hey Carrie!
Thanks for the support 🙂
I’ve always believed that any human being (man or woman) could dress in any way (barring decency laws) and not get raped/violated. This is a basic right, and not something that we should be fighting for. Unfortunately, because we have so many people who condemn women, society still accepts the fact that it’s alright to blame the victim.
It cannot be justified at all and we must continue to take this stand 🙂
thank you Carrie. Well enunciated.
for the people who have problems understanding the concept of ‘consent’….. here’s a good writeup. http://www.theloop.ca/this-woman-just-explained-consent-with-the-most-perfect-metaphor/
The issue of Consent and the issue of taking precautions are separate. Women can do the latter, but if the rest of the world doesn’t understand the former – it is of no use.
Hello!
Thank you for that link! It’s one of the articles I read a while ago too! Unconscious = no consent is my simplified way of putting it.
If this had been a case of a man getting drugged, stripped naked and having his photos circulated around the Internet, will he be called a whore, slut, stupid, vain etc? These people will most likey cry about how innocent he is because he is not likely to be “showing boobs or nipples”..
People.. A crime is a crime.. We teach our daughters to protect themselves and our sons to protect ours and other people’s daughters.. Just because other people’s daughters doesn’t protect themselves, it doesn’t make it right for our sons to take advantage of them..
Yup. Well said.
Just had this thought: The reason why our daughters still need to be taught to protect themselves sexually is because not all our sons are taught to protect other people’s daughters.
Agree. “Don’t tell us what to wear, tell your son not to rape.”
I think you’ve misunderstood and misrepresented most of the mean remarks made by “victim blamers”. While most of them deem the girl to be partially responsible for her demise, none of them actually said that what was done to her is right.
What I find ridiculous is how someone can insult others for their
Let’s use the first example you’ve raised. Michael said she asked for it and you interpreted it as rape is okay. Which part of his statement actually justifies your accusations of him being okay with rape?
Your misguided or perhaps even intentional misrepresentation of the victims blamers remarks shows a lack of understanding or worst still a dishonest attempt to further dehumanise and discredit those victim blamers.
It can be said, your article is a classic case of pot calling the kettle black. The only difference between your judgemental attitude and those you’re condemning is your ability to mask it with your superior use of language.
I agree that it’s ridiculous for people to make such mean remarks about another’s person misfortune. I wouldn’t do that and wouldn’t encourage people to do so. However I do agree with them that the girl is responsible for her demise as well.
We live in this world where most of us lock our house door before we sleep. If you chose not to do so and end up losing your property, you can be sure even your close friends will be “blaming the victim” by suggesting to lock the door the next time.
We are all responsible for our own safety and well being. We have a duty to take reasonable precautions to protect ourselves. I’m not so sure whether this girl has done her part to protect herself so I wouldn’t be so quick to judge. However if she hasn’t then she really should blame herself and learn from this nasty experience.
Hi James,
As you can tell from many of the other comments on this post, this is a polarising topic. My belief is that since they placed it on a public forum, they can and should be ready to accept the criticism levelled at them.
I am bringing out the ridiculous beliefs held by these people. Micheal is one of those people whom accept the fact that a woman is “asking for it”. Rapists do that all the time, so this is no more than just condoning the rape culture.
As for you analogy of locking the house: You can buy back your stolen items, but no one is going to snap pictures of you naked and circulate them. Also nobody will call you a “whore” and a “slut” for leaving your house open. A house, and a human body, are two very distinct and seperate things.
A more direct analogy would be: If you were drunk, how would you react when you realise that someone stripped you naked and snapped pictures of you. Of course, no one would call you a whore, or slut or degrade you because you’re a guy and then it’s “no big deal” right? See the inequality now?
Anyway, thanks for the reply. At least I know we’re getting replies.
It is not about an attempt to look chivalrous, but a larger picture as a whole. The girl was lucky she didn’t get raped. However, victim blaming DOES make it hard for victims to come forward.
If a girl comes home late at night and gets assaulted, do you blame the victim for staying out late? If so, who are you to decide what is a ‘proper’ time for girls to stay out? If the author is showing himself to be a white knight slamming the people who blame the victim, similarly you come off looking like a chauvinist.
Simply put, a victim is a victim. We don’t blame a robbery victim for having money just as we don’t blame girls who are confident and able to dress sexy for being victims.
If you really do feel strongly about their dress sense, maybe you should move to the Middle East. I’m sure their aesthetics will suit you nicely.
Wow.. after reading all the comments on the post and the replies of people here, it becomes a little difficult for anyone to respond without rage. However, having been brought up in a country where this happens more than often, i’ve learnt to live with it in a certain way. What i was always thankful for though, was the internet. A scope for people to be more connected to the world, to grow and to educate themselves. And yet, all i really see here is people getting more and more shamefully ignorant.
I would like to ask these people… these wonderful people who think it’s the women’s responsibility to keep themselves safe… Have you ever worn shorts? Do you wear sleeveless tees? Have you EVER stepped out of your house in slippers? Or do you always leave your house in a Victorian three piece suit with gloves and a hat?
Question number 2: What about the women in complete clothes.. traditional dresses like Burkhas and Sarees who get raped. Whose fault is that?
Question number 3: What about domestic rape.? Little girls? And Women who get raped by relatives? how do we stop that?
Please tell me oh wise people who don’t even think for a heartbeat’s second before spouting words of hate? what if, go forbid, this happened to you? Will this stop if we stop going out our houses all together? Is that the solution?
Consider this… the clothes are just something we humans have invented… Nature doesn’t need us to be clothed.. skin is by biological definition: the thin layer of tissue forming the natural outer covering of the body of a person or animal. NOT an invitation card to be violated. Please make sure that your mind is clean enough before you point at other people’s dirt.
Superb response, Roopali! 🙂 You took the words right out of my typing fingers.
That’s not entirely true.
If you know that a particular neighborhood is notorious for crime, do you purposefully take a stroll there with lots of jewellery and gold chains? If you get robbed, who’s fault is it?
I think what some of the pple here are trying to say is, learn to be wise, take precautions, and protect yourself. Yes, the rapists or the perverted guys who embarrassed her ought to be blamed entirely for the atrocities and punished to the full extent of the law. But that doesn’t mean that there’s nothing a girl can do to avoid such situations in the first place.
That’s entirely different from the culture and mindset in some parts of India, where it might be seen as socially acceptable to rape or abuse someone for showing a bit of skin.
Hi Wei Wen,
As long as we continue to say that the girl is able to avoid such situations, we continue to allow ourselves that window of opportunity to say “she did [xyz] so that’s why she was taken advantage of”.
We have to start just saying “It’s not alright for men to take advantage of a girl, in whatever situation.”
Only then, are we educating ourselves and future generations to stop rape culture.
“”We have to start just saying “It’s not alright for men to take advantage of a girl, in whatever situation.” “” but u see ah, the rapist themselves know that it is wrong, illegal and they have to go to jail after the deed. So everybody knows that it is not alright, so nothing can do be done on the education side alrdy right? Its like all the smokers in the world know that smoking is bad for health, but they still smoke. The educating of smokers is alrdy at the peak, so if a country wants to be smoke free, den the next best thing to do is to ban cigarettes etc.
We just have to accept that there are many people in the world who do not make wise decisions (raping,stealing,smoking) so we must learn to protect ourselves.
We sld be educating everybody around us that our safety is of utmost importance, and make safety our own responsibility, not on others not stealing ur money, raping you etc.there will always be bad people.
Hey Lu han,
I understand what you are saying. The thing is: the underlying subtext of society’s beliefs do not match up 100% with the law. In this case, I’ve seen comment after comment about this entire issue that says “it’s the girl’s fault”, meaning a sizeable population in our city still believes that a woman, victim or not, is at fault for the crime.
The mindset: That’s a real problem. As long as people keep believing in this, and think it’s a valid idea that a woman needs to protect herself 100%, it puts no onus on any man (rapist or not) to take part in that protection.
No Weiwen.. we would not go dressed in gold and diamonds right into a dark alley notorious for crime. But i hardly think that women do that to themselves. I’ve now seen a lot of people use this analogy. The difference though is simple… If the question was JUST about that one alley, we would avoid it. What do we do though if EVERY street, home and corner becomes a red zone? What all do we stop doing? do we cut ourselves from humanity, relocate to an island and take to never leaving our houses again?
It really makes me happy to see that men are finally taking a stand in this situation. It makes me very happy to see people like Kenneth Lee who talk about this change. But don’t you think that there should be more people like him. And instead of trying to find reasons to say’you should be more careful’, we all collectively, focus on bringing about a change?
Totally agree! I think it’s time we change the conversation from “victim shouldn’t have done this” to “rapist/molester shouldn’t have done this”. Because each time we divert the attention to what the victim has done or hasn’t done, we are giving criminals more excuses to justify their actions.
Thanks Kristen!
This is precisely the thing I’m trying to get people to recognise. The focus shouldn’t be on the victim. The focus should always be on the perpetrator.
It warms my heart to see that more men are taking a stand to stop victim blaming 🙂
Education plays such a huge role in this issue, as you can see by how the ignorant ones can’t even construct a sentence together. Sometimes, you really don’t know whether you should be hating them or pitying them. However, keep doing what you are doing! Help the human race win together!
#Genderequality
Thanks Kim!
You see, for me, it’s simple: We need to keep sending out this message so we can have a safer future for everyone.
Even leaving one’s laptop in the train does not exonerate theft. Let alone violence against another human being in the case that we are discussing.
Exactly. The thieves are still wrong.
I’m guessing Marcus probably doesn’t give to charity. Because he giving away money is an open invitation to robbers to rob him.
Let me give you 2 example to prove my points:
Millions of dollars was dropped out of the money truck in Hong Kong and those who pick up the money without returning go to jail (they found them from the camera all on the road). Be careful what you are doing there is camera every where.
A family in Malaysia was robbed and the thief even cut the mum. The father and son managed to overpowered the thief and tied him up and they send their mum to hospital. Upon returning they found the thief dead. They are charged in court for murder.
What does this says : even if the woman is walking naked in the street – it does not give anyone any right to rape her. There is simply no excuse at all regardless.
Thank you for the well written post, and for highlighting the poor moral values some people may share. I have absolutely no idea where the “less clothes = less deserving of respect” equation come from… Granted it’s a personal opinion, but they don’t sit well with me especially when I imagined Singapore to be an advanced society where people empathize with one another and promote equality. It is certainly very disappointing…
I was reading through the comments before me, and have a bone to pick with comparisons of a women being raped/molested as equivalent to not guarding your properties well enough, resulting in theft.
People need to understand that women are NOT commodities.
You can’t just scoop a woman away simply because she’s lying somewhere unconscious. How absurd! A women is a human being, not a packet of tissue!
Also, the suggestion that that women must actively be on guard to ward off perverts is simply unrealistic and comes off enabling to perpetrators. What if the rapist is much bigger and stronger, and she simply have no means? Must we have double-standards when it comes to girls dressed less conservative v.s. girls who cover up? Because really, just read the news and look at statistics – rapists don’t always pick only women who are deemed to dress provocatively. Heck, I read an article of a 75 y/o nun being raped!! Now did SHE ask for it?
I see some discussion on ““it’s never her fault”, and people who argue against this makes me question humanity. When it comes to rape, can it ever be a woman’s fault? Don’t they not understand the definition of rape, that it is an act WITHOUT consent?!
While I agree that everyone has the responsibility to be aware when in public (especially when drug/alcohol is involved), I must stress that it is also the moral responsibility of one to not commit a crime. The fact that this women in the article mentioned was drugged, shows intent of the perpetrator and that’s the nail in the coffin for me. She was 100% helpless, and unfortunately a victim to failed integrity.
I know my comment might draw ire and disagreements, but please look at this situation objectively. The same works for men who are raped. One might laugh at the thought of it, but it happens and it is people like YOU (if you’re laughing) who make victims afraid to ask for help. And this has to change, regardless of gender! People in general should be allowed to feel safe when they are out, and also worthy to seek help when victimized. Safety and respect is not a privilege, but a RIGHT regardless of how you are dressed and what you do. Rape = Rape.
People can’t get the nuances between “Haha serve you right” and “You should have listened and took more precaution”.
These feminists want men to not commit rape against women, and they believe education can achieve that. However they can’t see the different type of rapes happening,
Education on social equality will change the mind of men that preys on women because they see them as lesser beings, this will work in countries like India to prevent rapes that happens based on social standing. This will not work in SG, or other developed countries where equality is more or less established. In these developed countries, we are dealing with crooks that already understand the status quo but still commits crimes because they want what they want and cares little for morality or the law.
Since we most likely won’t be able to convince murderers not to kill, thieves not to steal and rapist not to rape, we’re only left with taking precaution and protecting ourselves as much as we can. If that means avoiding certain dress code, not going to club with shady people etc, then so be it. When we can make our own decision, our own safety also falls into our hands. If someone thinks you made the right choice, they applaud right? When they think you made the wrong choice, they can say “I told you so”, it’s their choice.
The women who got robbed in Malaysia, got her hand chopped off because she was wearing a gold bracelet. People know robbery is common there, so everyone avoids wearing expensive items. After the incident, she probably regretted her choice of jewelry and that she got complacent. This is no different from making yourself vulnerable to rape. If you say otherwise, please explain why this women can regret about her complacency, while others in rape situation shouldn’t? What about learning from mistakes, aren’t those girls probably going to be victims again if they choose not to take precaution? (People who took precaution but still got robbed/raped can’t be blamed for their actions because they’ve done their part. The world is not perfect, it would have been if it can, but it can’t because there will always be bad people. Honesty, have you seen anyone saying “Haha Serve you right” to the girl who got rape while waiting for the hdb lift to get home.)
There’s a danger to this feminist view that men shouldn’t rape women: If this propaganda of a perfect world(which have yet to be established) cause naive girls to take less precaution, they got rape when they could have avoided it, then who is to be held accountable for her lack of knowledge about the real world.
Essentially, we all do what we can to prevent crimes from happening to us or our loved ones, believing in ideology and what works are different. If this group influences my loved ones to be complacent about the danger of the world and they get harmed, I’ll be sure to come after them like a Niam before I get to the perpetrator.
The claims that if 1 dark alley can become dangerous for women, then soon 99% of the streets will be dangerous and women should just stay home after that. It’s silly, do you see Singapore becoming 1 big Geylang? There’s really only a small percentage of places that’s dangerous for each respective gender, your world will not collapse.
People can’t get the nuances between “Haha serve you right” and “You should have listened and took more precaution”.
These feminists want men to not commit rape against women, and they believe education can achieve that. However they can’t see the different type of rapes happening,
Education on social equality will change the mind of men that preys on women because they see them as lesser beings, this will work in countries like India to prevent rapes that happens based on social standing. This will not work in SG, or other developed countries where equality is more or less established. In these developed countries, we are dealing with crooks that already understand the status quo but still commits crimes because they want what they want and cares little for morality or the law.
Since we most likely won’t be able to convince murderers not to kill, thieves not to steal and rapist not to rape, we’re only left with taking precaution and protecting ourselves as much as we can. If that means avoiding certain dress code, not going to club with shady people etc, then so be it. When we can make our own decision, our own safety also falls into our hands. If someone thinks you made the right choice, they applaud right? When they think you made the wrong choice, they can say “I told you so”, it’s their choice.
The women who got robbed in Malaysia, got her hand chopped off because she was wearing a gold bracelet. People know robbery is common there, so everyone avoids wearing expensive items. After the incident, she probably regretted her choice of jewelry and that she got complacent. This is no different from making yourself vulnerable to rape. If you say otherwise, please explain why this women can regret about her complacency, while others in rape situation shouldn’t? What about learning from mistakes, aren’t those girls probably going to be victims again if they choose not to take precaution? (People who took precaution but still got robbed/raped can’t be blamed for their actions because they’ve done their part. The world is not perfect, it would have been if it can, but it can’t because there will always be bad people. Honestly, have you seen anyone saying “Haha Serve you right” to the girl who got rape while waiting for the hdb lift to get home.)
There’s a danger to this feminist view that men shouldn’t rape women: If this propaganda of a perfect world(which have yet to be established) cause naive girls to take less precaution, they got rape when they could have avoided it, then who is to be held accountable for her lack of knowledge about the real world.
Essentially, we all do what we can to prevent crimes from happening to us and our loved ones, believing in ideology and what works are different. If this group influence my love ones to be complacent about the danger of the world and they get harmed, I’ll be sure to come after this group like a Niam before I get to the perpetrator.
The claims that if 1 dark alley can become dangerous for women, then soon 99% of the streets will be dangerous and women should just stay home after that. It’s silly, do you see Singapore becoming 1 big Geylang? There’s really only a small percentage of places that’s dangerous for each respective gender, your world will not collapse.
That’s where you’re wrong: The reason people take advantage of women is still because there’s social inequality, in particular – Gender inequality. Until we stop saying that women that get taken advantage of “do not take responsibility of their own safety”, we’ll always have this problem.
Kenneth, What do you suggest then when all the rapist in the developed world alrdy know that rape is wrong/crime/kena rattan?
You have to ask yourself, are rapes here happening due to gender inequality? Where are these gender inequality happening, Income inequality? Career progression? Social Status? What are the evidences supporting them? Because the states already proved that their country’s feminist propaganda of inequality are false in all these areas.
LOL I had to unspam you. but I’ll allow your comment.
Also: You’re VERY mistaken if you think that rape is not due to gender inequality. Just watch everything happening on this comment thread.
While I can’t say all these “locking house” and “jewellery” analogies are totally wrong.
Just let me get 1 thing straight..
you’re comparing women.. to houses and jewellery..
Inanimate objects?
Uhm, okay.
I’m pretty sure she lost a hand too, but guess its ok as long as no penetration and men are involved. You have given humans too much credits, that they’re all morally good and cares about each other. (Ever heard of serial killer, child rapist etc?) Truth is they aren’t all good, if that’s the scenario given, how will you go about protecting your wife or daughter? By telling rapist they shouldn’t rape, or get your women and daughter a pepper spray.
erm, jewelry and humans aren’t the same thing. so let’s take a different analogy. you go sky diving, your parachute fails, you die. close enough analogy?
you go sky diving knowing the risks, and if you live anywhere you know the risks of walking through various places late in the night.
point is, don’t take risks.
Except you can choose to skydive or not and take the risk or not.
WIth rape, you’re gonna get raped whether you take precautions or not.
I could go on, but I’ll suggest you find out more before you talk about taking risks.
For those keep saying that it is a woman’s fault because she dresses in a certain way… Address this problem as a whole and use your critical thinking.
When you ask a woman to dress up according to your standard – There is still a chance of her being raped, fully clothed or partially clothed. By asking a woman to cover up herself, YES, there is a LESS not zero percent chance that she’d be a victim, however, this is just addressing the tip of the problem.
When you teach a man to be chivalrous, keep his private part in his pants and keep his mind on the right thing, there will be NO RAPE. If there is no rapists, there would be no rape. This will address the root of the problem.
As stated, if there is no rapists, there would be no rape. As simple as that.
And it goes for both genders, as the victims can be male or female. If you keep using the victim shaming card, how are you going to do it for a male victim? “Oh look he’s wearing a tank top, so revealing! Let’s rape him?” Sounds ridiculous now doesn’t it?
Murder,stealing,rape,discrimination are all taught to us to be morally wrong and against the LAW. Still you have prisons full of these people, and supposedly more education are suppose to work?
Like I said, those who can be educated are already educated by their parents/school and society. What’s left are the crooks to be, and you want to give women the false hope that they don’t exist or shouldn’t exist?
I’m not telling them these people don’t exist.
I’m saying that education is a lifetime thing, you can always start whenever.
If you teach people the right thing, in the long run, this problem CAN cease to exist IF every single human being on Earth are morally educated.
But then again, it is more like wishful thinking. At most, we can just try our best and educate our own children to act accordingly.
just my two pennies’ worth.
first of all, my stand on the matter is this, even if the girl was wearing nothing at all, she does NOT deserve to be raped, molested or touched in any way she does not want to be touched, period. What she’s wearing has absolutely nothing to do with this. To say that she deserves it or that she’s asking for it (and she is clearly not) is absolutely ridiculous. the presence of a temptation doesn’t justify murder, doesn’t justify robbery, doesn’t justify kidnapping, i don’t see why it would justify any form of sex offences. Imagine this, “I saw him draw $3000 dollars from the ATM, so I robbed him” Probably not the perfect analogy but i thought it’s fairly similar.
to my second point. yes, the offenders should definitely be condemned. But just like how it is prudent to avoid dark, dangerous alleyways on the way home at night, it is also prudent for boys and girls alike to not leave drinks unattended or to not accept drinks from people whom you don’t know that well, etc.
the first point is crystal clear to me, but the second point is where i get a little bit confused. Say if a girl did not take those prudent measures and accepted a drink from a complete stranger, and something unfortunate happened to her. I still wouldn’t say she’s at fault, but is it too wrong to say that she is in part responsible or accountable (however small it may be) for her less than prudent actions? the old saying “she should’ve known better” sounds wrong when first hearing it as it comes across as victim blaming or at the very least, extremely insensitive, but on second thought, is it that outrageous a comment?
would really like to hear some sincere thoughts on this. thanks
Thanks David!
Well the analogies are not direct ones, and with a subject like this, it requires an example that’s closer.
I think also, that prudence is one thing. I do agree with you that we should watch out for ourselves.
However, we have to be clear on this fact: there is a mindset that is pervasive in our society that allows for people to blame the victim because she/he wasn’t “prudent” enough.
As long as this mindset exists, there can and will always be people who will take advantage of others. That’s the real root of the problem.
she dressed provocatively to a club to have fun. Is that considered a slut? No. Was she careless? Maybe. Was she targeted by a bunch of experts and no way she could have escaped? Maybe. Did she deserve to be rape and taken pictures because she is careless? Hell no. Why would anyone deserve to be rape under any circumstances? So let’s put it this way, if she dressed like a nun, will she still deserves rape for going to a Club? If she didn’t go to a club, would she still deserves rape for going out late at night? If she didn’t go out late at night, would she still deserves rape for going to “unsafe places”? If she didn’t go to unsafe places , would she still deserves rape for being too pretty? So when issit not the victims fault? Someone pointed out no one says the rapist are not at fault – but the responses from many aren’t criticizing and attacking the rapist terrible actions but attacking the victim going on and on about what she should and shouldn’t have done. Where’s the logic?! I’m not sure since when people have become so self righteous and critical, totally incapable of showing empathy to the distress of another human being. It’s just very sad.
Don’t be a saint pushing blames around. One is responsible for their own actions. Always think twice before you do.
You really don’t understand what’s happening here.
The rapist is responsible for his own actions, yet you don’t seem to hold him accountable. But you would rather blame a girl who is dressed sexily.
“It is natural for people to blame the victim as a way to detach from the fact that being a victim is beyond our control.
This is projecting your own desire for control onto the situation, by suggesting that the events are avoided, if those events had been different.
But in each such case there is a counter example “if she had not been drunk, she would not have been raped”…as if only drunk people are capable of being victims of rape.
Really what is going on is the desire to imagine that the person should have prevented themselves from being a victim, when in fact they did not prevent it.
None of which of course changes the facts, that rape is still a crime – a violation of a persons rights and the person raped is not at fault for this.
So you would not look like a moron blaming the victim, if you had not blamed the victim….while this is true…it is not in fact what happens.”
Don’t try to make a girl’s outfit “talk”. She can talk and express with her own voice what she agrees to and what she wants. If she does not “ask” for it with her own voice, her clothes are not asking for anything. If she is drugged or drunk she cannot consent or express anything.
It’s really disturbing guys give themselves the right to “interpret” what a girl is “asking for”, just by looking at her outfit.
Thanks Fay. That’s something many people don’t understand yet.
“However, we have to be clear on this fact: there is a mindset that is pervasive in our society that allows for people to blame the victim because she/he wasn’t “prudent” enough.
As long as this mindset exists, there can and will always be people who will take advantage of others. That’s the real root of the problem.”
Hi Kenneth, I can’t draw the relation between victim blamers giving rise to criminals. I can see why the criminal will probably be thinking, thanks for being such a easy target, it’s your own fault.
But that isn’t the root of why people rape, people rape because they enjoy raping, people robs because they want money.
Think about it, if everyone is silent about the victim, will rape stop?
When everyone is silent about the perpetrator, the rape won’t stop.
And if every one is silent about the victim, nothing changes.
Why do you think we’re saying that we need to focus on the perpetrator? The more we blame the victims, the more we open doors for perpetrators to feel it’s alright to continue. That’s the link mindset link. If you can’t see it, you need to start reading about rape culture.
Uh? Since when did we not prosecute rapist, or publicly shame them. Even other types of criminals in a prison beats rapist up when they enter. The focus has never left the perpetrator.
But as always, people look at the rape as a whole, the rapist and the victim, if they deemed that the victim too could have been more responsible to herself, then she could have avoided it. It’s everyone’s rights to have their own opinion, the same goes for any other crimes.
Just because people blame both perpetrator and victim, that doesn’t mean they think the perpetrator is less responsible and hence encouraged him/her to rape. That’s a straw man fallacy of misrepresentation.
Categorically untrue since many of the comments are that the girl deserved it. The focus has always been that “oh yes she should have been more careful”.
When ever the victim is blamed, it contributes to the fortification of the mindset that the perpetrator wasn’t entirely wrong. That is the depth of rape culture entrenched in our society.
It is to the point where we think it’s fine to blame both the victim and the rapist. As you can tell, many disagree with that view.
Erm, there are no comments blaming the perpetrator because there is no point blaming him anymore?
They are getting prosecuted, charged, punished. And you see the need to flame them more online?
People mention the girl because no one talked about her prudence. Not the court. Not the news. So they feel the need to talk online.
And it is very limited to think that saying the girl has responsibilities means taking away the blame from the perpetrators. It is not a zero-sum game. The girl can have responsibilities and the perpetrators take full blame at the same time.
Great point!
If the lady has it and wants to flaunt there shouldn’t be anyone stopping them (except for walking around in public against the law).
What I don’t understand is that why are people still saying her actions are to be blamed when she has lost the most? She’s viral and if she was raped that trauma. I’m just pretty amused that it just shows there is no difference between animals and human beings.
Here we humans have gone on to understand so much about the world and till date we still do not understand good from bad but we’ve become brilliant at shifting the blame.
Oh wells we all have our point of view.
Why blame the victim? Blame her for?? I still don’t get it. Blame her for her choice of clothes, for clubbing, for being careless for not looking after the drink so she’s responsible for getting rape too?? Wow that’s so … Illogical. It’s like saying you shouldn’t put wallet in your pocket because you are inviting pickpockets to rob you so you are to be blame if you are robbed . So it today she did none of those and still get rape, what else can ppl say? Just her luck that she’s suay? Omg seriously no logic, just think about it.
hahahahahaha! Blunt! Love it!
Good job Kennth. However I think it would have been better if you had not included the names of those people who posted the comments.
Anyway in response to Marcus and those who like to use the robbing and unsafe neighborhood analogy, let me give you another example. You are walking outside my house one day. Suddenly, I open my door, beat the living shit out of you, hang you naked by the side, take your money and goes back into my house casually. You cry for help while shouting something like how can this happen! I was only walking around minding my own business and I was not wearing any jewellery so I should not be robbed!
Instead of getting help, those people who walk past you say things like “oh you stupid fuck, that’s where someone who thinks lives. You should not even have been there in the first place”
Or things like “doesn’t matter whether you are wearing jewellery or not. As long as you are wearing clothes it must mean you have money. You should have just walked around naked so people know you don’t have money”
Then as you continue hanging from the pole butt naked, you keep thinking who are all these stupid fucks that are making no sense at all? So what, now I have to wear clothes with tattered holes just to tell people I’m not worth beating up and robbing? Why doesn’t anyone care about my definition or rich and poor? Of what is right and wrong? Why must I only subscribe to their thinking?
And then it hits you. You guys are the dumb fucks in this story.
Hey!
Thanks. The truth is, I wanted them to be named. It’s a public forum anyway, and if they had the guts to say it, then they should be ready to face the backlash.
Same thing here, all the opinions about this piece are laid bare.
Haha yup I agree but I just think it might distract your readers from the real issue you are trying to raise. (Pretty sure some of the people here are raising hell because they are the ones you mentioned) Nonetheless good job!
Well…. you know… the phrase “welcome to the Internet” comes to mind…. 🙂
Social responsibility shld go be the way to go! I am disappointed no one bothered to intervene when the poor lady’s drink was being laced…I mean dont tell me not a single soul saw what happened b4 she gulp down that laced drink? I wld assume in this case no one even bothered to take up responsibility to stop the crime frm happening…as fellow human beings we shld look after each other’s backs even if you don’t know the person…sure u might be seen as a “kay po” (busybody in Singapore’s local colloquial) or u might even be beaten to a pulp…but at the end of the day if your actions can save someone’s life or someone’s dignity…why not do it? Btw I am not referring to anybody in particular here just expressing what could have prevented this incident frm happening 🙂
Yup.
Though they might be wrong, you shouldn’t be name shaming them either. At least, censor their names. Doesnt look smart on you either.
Different viewpoint on this. One side is what you just mentioned.
Other side is that they actually commented publicly on Facebook, which means they’re fair game. Just like we all are on this comment section. So… I decided to use their names.
Let’s just take it as it is. Rape is always wrong and should never be justified but (some) men are idiots who cannot control themselves. One dick, one brain and not enough blood between them for both to properly function. This is not about logic, it is impulsive lust. We cannot ‘intellectualise’ rape because men who rape do not use their brains. You can tell them it is wrong but in the heat of the moment, do you think they care? This is not a justification for rape. It is just how (some) men are. Men should learn to lower their gaze and control themselves, absolutely. But don’t depend on them because men are hopeless!!!
At the same time, it is clear that dressing conservatively is no guarantee of protection. Nuns get raped. Women in the Middle East dressed in their hijabs get raped. Why? Because men are dicks (pun intended). But this is not a zero-sum game. There are men who will be less likely to act on their urges if a woman dresses less provocatively. In doing so, you avoid *those* men but the risk of being raped by the men in the former category remains. A woman should be able to dress however she likes. It’s her body, it’s her choice. But we do not live in a perfect world and it would be foolish to not take precautions.
If she has it flaunt it! Totally agree with that. If you want something you earn it. The way they went about doing it, inhumanity! Hais we humans have tried understanding the world but till date we cannot understand each other.
This is just amusing and disturbing at the same time.
If we live in a perfect world then yes, women can wear whatever they want and they will not be raped. Similarly, in a perfect world we can believe in whichever God or no God we want and not be judged/slandered/beheaded etc.
However, it is not. We all need to recognise this point.
Unless we live in an utopian society, there would always be such incidents. The arguments would only be in circles — which came first? The sexy woman or the horny bastards?
How would we know for sure?
This reminds me who came first the chicken or the egg?
We’re not living in a perfect world but shouldn’t we be trying to make it perfect?
All Kenneth is trying to say and it’s my interpretation of course, it has happened the person who suffered is the girl because it was consensual. Instead of wishing her best of luck in her recovery and sending her well wishes people are bantering her? Is it fair? I’d never want my future wife not to wear clothes that don’t flatter her and bring her confidence up. I’d never want her to live in fear. I’d hope that men can control their dicks and ill intentions better.
There is a reason why there are prostitutes around if your dick is itchy. It is to minimise cases like this. But apparently it isn’t working maybe rape or for in this instance this case should carry capital punishment so people have fear for doing this acts?
Yes maybe introduce capital punishment for rapists, that will certainly reduce rape rates. On the other hand, I wouldn’t say the girl deserves it but I do believe everyone is reponsible for their own safety, be it walking, driving or in the club. If you have the power to avoid something terrible, why not right?
Wasn’t consensual*
I’d kindly like to call to everyone’s attention two videos which I have watched recently that talks about victim blaming.
‘Women? It’s your fault!’ and ‘If cops treated petty theft like rape’.
It sums up most of the stupidity perpetuated by most comments here. Google it you internet warriors. I’m too tired to do it for you.
Main point of the videos: if you’re a woman, you deserve to get raped. It doesn’t matter what you’re wearing, where you are, who you’re with, what you’re doing, what time it is.
I was nearly raped. I will tell you what I wore, THICK LONG JEANS, and a very modest JACKET over a T-SHIRT . I was cycling home from school in the evening with another girl, who I just dropped off. I saw a police car two minutes before the incident happened patrol around the area. For God’s sake there where other people driving/cycling home too not more than 50 meters in front of and behind me!
And then two men cycling in front of me decided to look at me funny and tried to ram me. I was beyond terrified, so full of fear, the scream wouldn’t just come out.
So everyone here needs to experience some form of petty crime before they understand that it is not the victims fault?
I don’t care about the context of this incident, so you think this women deserved to get raped because she dressed for clubbing and went clubbing?
How many of the commentators and viewers here went clubbing before and dressed like that? Were you purposely thinking while you dressed up, yes! I will definitely get raped like this! Like this, I am asking for it! I am going clubbing, where I might get raped! Late at night! I might get drugged because I look like this!
You still went right? So does this mean, because of rape, you shouldn’t go at all? Because you’re a women you might get raped?
Or should it be men shouldn’t go, because you might rape?
My friend’s shop got robbed while working. So it’s her fault for having a shop? For not having any customers inside besides two other workers? For owning a cash register?
Snatch thefts happen everyday, so it’s people’s fault for buying a bag and carrying it around?
Pick pocketing happens all of the time, so it’s everyone’s fault for wearing pants with pockets and going to busy areas carrying money and a phone?
My phone was stolen. It was those old Nokia models, stolen two years ago when smartphones were and are still all the rage. So it’s my fault for having a phone? For using it in public?
An old man was robbed, after the robbers found out that he had not more than RM2 on him, they slashed him halfway to death and bashed his head with a motorcycle, in broad daylight, in front of a train station and a police station, because they were infuriated. So he deserves to be robbed because he was walking? Deserves to be slashed because the money wasn’t enough?
Shame on all of you. Because according to everyone, we all deserve to be victims.
Last situation, a friend of yours is in a car accident (touchwood, heaven forbid) with another car, or with a pedestrian. Let’s say a normal situation where no one is drunk, it’s plain daylight, cars are in good condition/ no phone involved. It is just human error. Your friend dies. So it’s their fault for having a car/driving the car/trying to avoid the pedestrian?
So don’t complain next time you take all of the precautions and still something happens to you, you victim blamers.
You deserve to get robbed because you have money.
You deserve to get robbed because you want to own a phone.
You deserve to get killed because you drive a vehicle or use some form of transport to walk.
You deserve to have bad things happen to you because of where you walk.
You deserve to get mugged in broad daylight or at night because you have something or nothing of value on you.
You deserve to have these things happen to you, because you are human.
You deserve to get raped, because you exist. Animals get raped, men get raped, women get raped.
Don’t ask why the victim never asked for help. Don’t ask why this, why that, or say it’s because of this or that.
Why do you want to justify rape and crime so badly? This is how we all contribute to rape culture.
It is never anyone’s fault, but those with bad intentions, who do bad things.
Last note: Why teach, ‘don’t get raped’ instead of ‘don’t rape’?
If I leave my house unlocked and a burglar entered, am I partially at fault, is this victim blaming?
The perpetrator is definitely at fault, and really, however is it really that wrong to wish that young women learn to protect themselves (not trying to blame the victim btw as this statement always seem to be misinterpreted)?
To those who say that the woman was asking for it because of the way she dressed or acted: let me tell you something.
A few years ago, I was molested. Walking home alone at night. In the neighbourhood I grew up in. What was I wearing, you may ask? A baggy T-shirt and jeans. Was I asking for it then? What was I THINKING, walking home??? In a place I thought I was safe??? Surely it’s my fault? I mean the baggy shirt I was wearing was clearly provocative and waaaaay too sexy for my molestor to resist, right?
I hope by now you realise that no one is asking for it, ever. I wasn’t asking to be molested. This woman was definitely not asking to be drugged and violated. The fact that she was drugged should already tell you that this whole situation was non-consensual.
And speaking of non-consensual: those who argue that “she was asking for it”, are already contradicting themselves. It is completely illogical to “ask” to be violated if these acts you are describing are performed WITHOUT CONSENT.
Thank you for this post, I’m quite thankful to know that there are other guys with moral fibre.
I just wanted to point out that there are many guys including myself who view rape as wrong, and I believe majority of guys have a good degree of self-control. It is not about being deterred by the law; it is about being a decent human being.
As a child I have been taught to always do the right thing regardless of the situation; if someone dropped their wallet, the right thing to do is return it. Similarly, just because a girl is dressed slightly scantily does not mean that it is right for her to be raped.
Far too many people place the onus on the female for not ‘taking enough preventive measures’ but the fact is that, sometimes, no matter how much you take precautions, it’s not enough. The point is that, people can come up with a million reasons why it is not their fault that they did what was clearly wrong, and people who place the blame on the victim are no different than siding with the rapist! How atrocious is that?
Instead of blaming the victims of rape, why are we not blaming the rapist for lacking self-control, for lacking respect for a fellow human being, for lacking moral fibre, for being a piece of shit? Why are we not persecuting these bastards, these threats to society instead?
The simple reason why rape continues to occur is simply because rapists will never agree it is their fault; it is always the female’s fault. Arguably, it can be said that from the rapist’s point of view, it will always be the female’s fault, simply because she has a hole to stick it in. And that’s the problem with society. Can we all stop making the victims of rape take responsibility for being raped, and start persecuting the perpetrators of these heinous crimes instead?
Hey Devon,
Glad to know a fellow guy agrees.
The problem here is that “fault” and “responsibility” are treated as the same thing.
It is certainly not the woman’s fault, but it can still be her responsibility. If we wish to work towards some notion of feminism, and a more common humanity, men and women alike would have to take responsibility for the state of things (others’ desires, problems in the modern world) that are not their fault per say. The flip-side here (importantly) is that men are also not at fault for being sexually aroused by women dressed in a certain way (after all, think about the constant bombardment of sex images, and the objectification of women in media), but they can still be responsible for choosing to not act on their lust.
It is equally problematic for women to assert their own rights to dressing (at the expense of actual, perhaps shameful realities), and for men to, likewise, assert their right to sexual invitation (and to “naturally” be inclined to rape women dressed in particular ways). Neither invited what was coming to them (being raped, or being aroused), they simply found themselves in a complex field of social influences. That does not, in any way, obviate responsibility on both sides.
Instead of finding straightforward targets to pin some blame on, e.g. “men’s mindsets” or “women’s sense of modesty/proper dressing”, perhaps we all have to be responsible for what we encounter as a pertinent social issue (that might not be of our own causing), in ways that may limit our own individualism and desires (e.g. dressing in any way we deem fit, and being able to enact our own sexual desires without control/consequence).
By shifting the rhetoric from “blame” to “responsibility”, it is possible to start thinking through more important issues – for instance, why it is so difficult to accept limits on our freedoms (and rights) in order to achieve particular social “goods” (however they be defined)? Both men and women alike should begin at this crucial question.
So basically, you’re taking the middle ground with the first few paragraphs.
After that, it becomes a “responsibility” argument. I notice that the responsibility is on Women to dress and cover up, to be “less alluring” to men in many patriarchal societies. However, for men, we generally don’t tell them to be aware and to not take advantage of women.
In other words: We tell women to carry rape whistles, but we don’t tell men that women shouldn’t need to carry rape whistles.
The “responsibility” has always been there, but it’s always been there on the woman.